Mike: I wanna ask you about stuff that you're interested in actually talking about, as opposed to stuff that's obligitory to ask every time you do an introduction interview.. I've got a bunch of questions prepared, but is there anything in particular you want to talk about?

Sam: Mmm..no, I don't have any, anything on my mind in particular that's burning at the moment... why don't you just keep firing away & see what it leads to..

M: What exactly did you listen to as a kid, from 12 or 13 on?

S: Well, at that stage, you're pretty much listening to the radio. When I was about 12, that'd be about the late 70s or so..

M: You were born in nineteen sixty...

S: Four. It'd be listening to the pop radio, AM radio of the 70s, & nothing to unusual about. Later, by the time I got into junior high, you find out about rock & roll, at that time it was like Aerosmith, that way my big thing..

M: When did you start to take music very seriously?

S: I started playing trumpet when I was a kid, like in fourth grade. So I always liked music, but by the time i started listening to R&R music, & Sabbath, & Aerosmith, none of those bands had a trumpet, so i had to play guitar, so I was still interested, even before I had heard 'real' music. [laughs.]

M: Did you ever listen to classical music?

S: Classical? No, at that age, like in jr high, i was playing like marching band kinda stuff.

M: Did you listen to the Beatles as a kid?

S: I never listened to the beatles until later, my family was never like into rock & roll or anything, i didn't have any older siblings.. later, after i was more into playing music & interested in writing songs i started listening to the beatles more, but i didn't know anything about 'em.

M: Did you go through a heavy Beatles stage at any time later on?

S: yeah, i guess so, it's kinda weird to.. i was probably 18 or 20 before i started really listening to the beatles much.. before, they were just another band..

M: & you thought you'd heard everything?

S: right, you've heard everything on the radio, i thought i knew everything.. so it's like very exciting to hear that kinda stuff for the first time

M: What have you been listening to lately?

S: i dunno, a lot, i like a lotta.. lately i've been listening to a lot of jaimacan music

M: Widening your horizons?

S: i guess so, most the stuff i listen to isn't really that much like the stuff i play.. for whatever reason, i dunno.

M: Where did the style you play come from then?

S: it probably comes from.. it's just like a language that you learn, like the way that i play music insn't really.. it's just kind of a natural...

M: So you're not heavily influenced by new things so much?

S: well you know, it's just like when you learn, when you grow up, you learn language from people talking around you, & that kinda how i learned music, it's the type of music i learned to when i was growing up. now i might not even listen to old pop music anymore, or rarely, but it comes out in the music that i play cos it's just deep in my brain from listening to it when i was a kid.. alll that stuff & it just kinda becomes the language that i - at least for me - the languagethat i speak most fluently.

M: So it's more subconcious?

S: yeah, probably. it's just kinda the thing that forms your idea of what a song is supposed to be.. & by the time you're like 25 years old, it's all like everything that happens after that is a little more intellectual, it doesn't reach the same kinda developmental levels as when you're younger..

M: What would you say are the top five or ten albums your listening to right now?

S: i'm sorry, i was chewing, i couldn't hear what you were saying. [laughs.]

M: What would you say are the top five or ten albums your listening to right now?

S: Well, hmm, I've been going through this.. I got, when we bought this equipment to record the new record on, I got the ability to make my own cds, so I've been going back.. & listening to & just like making cds of stuff from my record collection that i can't take out on tour, just a bunch of stuff that i enjoy, it's like making a mix tape or whatever.

I made like an iggy pop cd, & a yardbirds cd...

M: That reminds me.. There have been reports of elliott's new record sounding a lot like the stooges.. do you know anything about this?

S: i haven't really heard it, but yeah, i remember, i've been into the stooges really heavily, & at the last tour, finally, it seems like elliott was beginning to listen to the stooges.. i don't know why, necessarily.. umm, but he had been listening to it, which i thought was a good thing, perhaps that's true, i don't really know...

M: You've had some more free time lately. What have you been up to?

S: well you know, same thing that everyone else does, when i'm around the house.. little projects.

M: What sort of projects?

S: Well, we're having the house painted, which I'm not doing.. just little things.. we put in cabinets.. you know? [laughs.] it's like all this stuff is new.. it's the same thing that normal people sorta do...

M: Do you have a supporting job at the moment?

S: No, I don't actually.

M: So you must have some free time..

S: Recently a little bit, but I had been on tour more often than not for like st two years.. Yeah, so now i have a little bit of a break, & you know, most of the time, i haven't really lived in any places that i can really do any work on.. i lived in little basement, dingy places or whatever.. So now I have a nice place, & I can like be at home & do stuff at home..

M: I've heard you're into biking?

S: Yes, bicycling is the other thing.. actually, i just went to cuba, & did some bicycling there..

M: I heard about that.. what was that exactly?

S: It was just basically a vacation. we just went down there, we brought some bicycles down..

M: There was an article about a Portland duo that got in trouble for going to Cuba..

S: Yeah, that.. you know, i saw that too.. strangely, the duo consisted of me & my girlfriend, & janet was never part of it. [laughs.]

M: Well, that's a little misleading..

S: Yeah, it didn't make very much sense, but um, yeah, we went to cuba & we got busted in customs cos it is illegal to go there.

M: Have you done many other tours?

S: Yeah, we.. my girlfriend who i live here with at home.. we do quite a bit of bicylcing.. we've been all the way from vancouver BC down to mexico.. on bicycle.

M: How computer literate are you?

S: I dunno anything about computers. my cd thing isn't.. doesn't even go with the computer..

M: Do you own one?

S: Yeah, i use it for communication & stuff, but i don't really know much about it..

M: In what order did you learn to play the instruments you now play?

S: Well, you know, I'm still learning.. I don't really know how.. I mean, I said the first instrument I played was trumpet, but i really don't pretty much forgot how to play that.. & then afterwards guitar, & only started really playing piano a few years back.. so hopefully you stil keep learning.

M: How about lyric-writing?

S: I had well, when i first started a band, i didn't want to be a singer, i didn't want to write songs, but umm, neither did anybody else in the band, & umm..

M: Was this in high school?

S: No, this would be later, like when I was in college..

M: With [your old band] Donner Party?

S: It was actually Donner Party, but when donner party started, it was different people in the band. &, it was pretty much just the fact that i wasn't a good singer, but i was the best one of the bunch, that i had to be the singer..

M: But it worked out..

S: yeah, well, you know, i didn't want to sing, i didn't have any skill in singing, but the other people didn't want to do it.. & then once i started singing, i had to write the words to sing, cos i.. i don't know [laughs.] it just happened, it was default, i wasn't really that interested..

M: Speaking of writing.. did you do well in English?

S: I never was much of a student.. I went to college, but it was pretty much just cos i didn't want & go out & join the work force full time.. you know, i went to a cheap, err, 'affordable' college it wasn't much a big deal for me.

M: Have you put much consideration into releasing a record of all your old, out of print, unreleased songs?

S: I think most of the tapes we'd probably be able to dig up somehow.. but i dunno, i don't really have a.. we're still working on.. we have plenty of new stuff, it's hard enough just to keep that goin', maybe at some point we might want to make a break, & start pulling together stuff from the past.. i like records like that from other bands when they come out, a lot of times, umm, so, maybe, but it probably won't be for a while. [laughs.]

M: You've thrown away some good songs, noticably 'All Bent Out of Shape' isn't on the new record. What happened with that?

S: Well i like that song, we recorded it for this new record, but we just had too many songs, it didn't seem to fit on there, umm, & i dunno, i think it's an ok song, but it's a little bit.. um, i don't know. i didn't think.. it just didn't have as much weight as some of the other stuff that we put out on the record.. i think it's gonna come out as like a bonus track on like a foreign record...

M: Will there be a single in conjunction with the new album?

S: I don't think so, but we might make a single to take with us on tour, & just sell on tour.

M: What might be the song you promote for radio?

S: Mm, I dunno, i never really know that stuff. people, it seems like people like different stuff than i like, i never know what people are gonna like, or if they're gonna like anything at all, maybe nothing.. but if ocassionally something seems to find some kind of favour.. but i don't really know what it would be on this.. do you have any ideas?

M: It's Raining seems catchy enough..

S: yeah, well, it's basically like a sach-domino(?) type of song.. it's pretty simple.

M: Well, whatever draws people in..

S: Well, yeah, you know, I don't think simple is bad, necesarily,

M: What's the current state of the roxichord?

S: It doesn't work anymore. the old one is.. yeah, actually, the seattle rock museum actually bought it from me.

M: For its value as an instrument?

S: no, uh, i mean, you know, maybe i'll... i think their.. they bought it for cheap, & i think they hope something will happen, & i'll get famous, & they can have it in their collection, you know? plus it's nice of them to give a little bit of.. i couldn't use it anymore.. a little charity to a struggling musician.

M: what are you using now?

S: it's just a. like a standard digital keyboard, but it had.. the Roland Co. makes a sound modual that has roxichord sounds in it, & it took me a while, but eventually i found that, & that's what i've used for a couple of years..

M: what sort of distortion do you run the roxichord through?

S: It's an old MXR distortion plus, i bought that for 20 bucks from my next door neighbor when I was like 17 years old..

M: How did you come up with the idea to distort it?

S: Well, i bought the keyboard after Quasi had already been playing for a while..

M: Was this before or after releasing Early Recordings?

S: naw, it hadn't been released, i actually used the roxichord on one song that came out on early recordings..

M: Which one was that?

S: Umm.. it was, it's umm, called.. Shit, I don't remember what it's called..

M: Hmm.. [starts naming songs.]

S: No, it's. umm.. it's at the top of my tongue.. I could remember it but I can't now..

M: Is it obvious in the song?

S: It's uh, I played the roxichord without the distortion box, it's just sounds kinda like a funky keyboard..

M: Hmm..

S: Oh, it called, now I remember.. it's called 'Mammon.'

M: Is it the lead instrument?

S: Yeah, it's the piano, keyboard thing that's on there..

M: Since Early Recordings your sound has changed a lot.. How has it progressed?

S: Well you just, you know, you, in life, you move long, & things happen, & things change.. it hasn't really been that much plotted out so far, i think the main change was from like the early recordings, it seems when we first started we were not really that.. it was sort of like anything goes, it was sort of more experimental..

M: Still more true to the name of the band..

S: yeah, & eventually we kind of went off more, just like kinda straight-ahead rock & pop stuff, & less like experimental stuff..

M: Might that return?

S: No, I mean, I'd like to maybe go back & do more experimental stuff at some point, that's still likely to kinda return.

M: Field Studies sort of sounds a little more experimental..

S: Yeah, I dunno, I guess it's always.. we just wanted to make it sound a little different from the previous record, so we tried to use different sounds.. but the actual song structures are not that different, just more elaborate maybe..

M: Well, they seem less condensed than Featuring 'Birds'/R&B Transmogrification..

S: yeah, that might be true.. yeah, i dunno, i think we kinda gone back..

M: The new songs sound like more of a return to old..

S: yeah, simpler maybe..

M: You seem to be going in several directions.. Sort of back to Birds, & at the same time a whole new direction..

S: mm, a little bit, i think, because i, i just kinda.. we had time to think a little more about this record, cos i was on tour, & i sat just like on my back staring at the ceiling of the tour bus thinking about recording.. & i think, 'god, i listened to only simpler.. my favourite music is like simple, straight up rock,

M: Do you own the White album?

S: I do, yeah, there's a lotta great songs on there..

M: [Some of your new songs have a similar sound to the John Lennon songs on the White album], where'd he pound one note over & over to see if it might sound different...

S: a lot of his songs on there are kinda like more blues oriented.. at times.

M: Yes, well, it's very eclectic.

S: yeah, but there's a lot of different stuff..

M: So, as for your hair.. how do you feel about hair? Ruminate on that..

S: [laughs.] well, i don't have too many feelings.. i guess it's just, you know, you let it grow long, & get sick of the way it looks, & you cut it off.

M: do people seem to have many strong opinions on it? your girlfriend might be a good person to have some..

S: eh, i don't think.. i'm sure people have their opinions..

M: i suppose you can do whatever you want, you're a 'rock star.'

S: Umm, yeah, i guess, you know, some people might, think, or try to describe me as a rock star..

M: Well, better said, a musician.

S: yeah, we'll keep it at that. [laughs.]

M: Is it any kind of statement for you, though?

S: well my hair is really short right now..

M: Elliott has said his long hair is more of a statement against short, dyed-haired 'winners.'

S: yeah, i don't really know.. i mean, with elliott, he's.. they take a lot of pictures of him, & he does interviews, so he's all very concious of that kind of stuff.. with me, uh, you know, i just treat my hair the same way i've always treated it.. occasionally i have to have photos taken, so i guess it kinda works into the picture..

M: You probably afford to not care about it too much..

S: i just don't think it really matters that way.. i guess i do think about it a little bit, like when you know someone's taking their picture & their gonna look at your hair, but it's not a political statement.

M: I suppose you'd need at least a few million people watching you for it to really matter..

S: yeah, at least.

M: You had an ancient Chinese ceremonial wine vessel on the cover of featuring 'birds,' & there was a song about Hui Neng on Early Recordings, & there have been some other things.. [also the Ancient Chinese Music shirt.] are you interested in ancient chinese culture?

S: all ancient cultures are realy interesting to me.. & yeah, for some reason, there has been a little bit of a chinese theme going on, but i don't think it's really that concious. .the chinese are really interesting, cos there an ancient.. there's so brilliant, & so kinda horrible in some ways, umm, so i dunno, it makes it kinda compelling.

M: Have you done much reading on it?

S: I'm always reading, especially while touring & traveling, there's a lot of time with not much to do.

M: What else have you read?

S: Well, I'm about.. strangely enough, talking about ancient civilisations, i just today picked up a book called 'fingerprints of the gods,' it's about.. it's sort of a presenting of a theory that there were actual civisliations long long before historical record begins, umm, & it gives various types of evidence for that, so.. kinda interesting. but i have been reading just kinda. classics, novels.

M: Did you ever have a chance to read Either/Or?

S: Uh, I read that book in college, many many years ago..

M: [Either/Or is essentially about Aestheticism/Epicurianism vs. Morals..] There's a lyric in your song 'California' about 'the happy Epicurians.' Is there a concious double-meaning between the ancient Epicurians & the modern ones, who are more known for placing value on fancy food, et cetera?

S: Right, well that's more what it meant.. the epicurians.. the greek epicurians had philosophy that was explored that lead them to sort of enjoy life, at the present, but modern epicurians don't really seem to have any philosophy..

M: Seems to have more negative connotations now..

S: yeah.

M: Did you pay some attention in Ancient Civ then?

S: umm, naw, again, it was a long time ago, & i really wasn't.. sure.. i did eventually graduate from college, umm, mostly i just kinda played in rock & roll bands & tried to do the minimum amount of work to keep myself in school..

M: it seems to

S: well.. [pause.] sort of.. you know..

M: At least you've made some good records.

S: Well I'm glad you think they're good..

M: Also, speaking of references [to mythology,] there's a reference to the Greek Argonauts on The Sword of God. The term 'Argonaut' was also given to the '49ers (gold miners) in california..

S: Oh right, yeah.

M: The term 'Argonaut' was also given to the '49ers (gold miners) in california.. Is that another concious double-meaning?

S: Well that was, that song was sort of.. i wrote that one while i was on tour, & that's how i sort of felt.. i was traveling around on a quest for nothing, really, you know? i think that the argonauts had this goal in mind - the golden fleece - whatever that was, & nobody seems to know exactly what it was. but i started to feel i have no goal, i'm doing this for some unknown reason.

M: What does 'the sword of god' represent?

S: well, i've started recently trying to just.. i've reached the point where i felt like i didn't really have any more.. the ideas i've come up conciously for songs, i feel like i've already done 'em, i just like, i like to try & let unconcous ideas come through, & that, then sometimes i have to fill in the blanks with concous ideas. That was just sort of an image that was in my head, it wastied into, just being on tour, & uh, all the things that i.. that i disliked about it..

M: So you've sort of reached the [stream of concious] 'I Am the Walrus' stage?

S: well, could be.. i definitely had a concious idea about what that was, but it was more sorta.. the thing that i love the most in music was not really, evident in a lot of.. [tape ends.] .. it doesn't really come out that clearly in the song, but umm, images like that were sort of in my head at the time.

M: At least it gives you something to think about, as opposed to 'I'm on tour; I'm unhappy.'

S: yeah, it's you know, you don't want to write tour songs, or road songs, in general.. that's the idea...

M: All the literal songs have been written..

S: yeah, with quasi, it's a lot.. i don't have time to think about much with quasi cos we do everything ourselves.. we drive, we load the gear, we manage the tour, we do the financing, everything.. i don't have any time, but with elliott i have nothing but time to think about ridiculous things, the supernatural...

M: Do you think you write your better songs on the road with Quasi or Elliott?

S: Mm, eh, i don't really know which songs of mine are better, & which of them aren't..

M: Well, which songs have you written with on which tours?

S: Hmm.. it's kind of a blur, i.. i, i can't really necessarily remember which songs i've written on specific tours, cos i've been on tour so much with different bands, but i did remember the sword of god that we were talking about cos it had a theme that kind of tied into the things on our tour, but otherwise i dunno.. it becomes hard to write on tour sometimes, cos there's not a very good rhthym going on.. you're always moving around, jerking from place to place..

M: What percent of your songs might you say were written on tour?

S: Well i didn't really tour very much until 2 or 3 years ago, so 0 percent of songs were written on tour up until then, umm, & then i was on tour umm, like for a good part of the year for the last several year, so just the sheer time of it meant that an odd number of songs were written on tour.. i don't really know how many though.

M: You seemed to have had way to much time on your hands to think of morbid things during the creation of R&B [Transmogrification]..

S: yeah, that was written during a very morbid time, but not on tour.

M: It's almost so morbid it's funny.. Field Studies seems a lot more genuinely sad..

S: yeah, i mean, that's semi-intentional, i think that field studies was.. yeah, i think it's not very well rounded emotionally, it's all just like.. sad..

M: Well, it's a good record, depending on your mood..

S: yeah, i, you know, the next, there's really no where to go after doing a record like that except for just, you know what i mean? there's no next logical step, you just take a different direction..

M: That direction had been maxed-out..

S: well, i mean, luckily it's just the way i was feeling at the time we were putting it together, but luckily i was able to get over it, & move into a better. a broader palet of human emotions..

M: There are countless references to primates on all of your records.. Do you have a strong interest in them?

S: well people are primates, & that's the primary ape that i'm really interested in, but umm, sometimes it's interesting to sort of look at people as if they were primates, & not, you know? as if you were.. if you were a zoologist, rather than an anthropologist, observing the behaviour of this strange ape, & umm, it gives you a certain type of perspective if you look at it that way..

M: that mostly holds true.. what about 'the ghost has got the monkey by the tail'?

S: Right.. well, that was.. that was specific.. what I had in mind with that was, I was having, at the time, i sort of felt.. I wasn't really happy, & i felt sort of like a ghost, unsubstantial, & barely there.. but there was another part of me that was more physical, & apelike, that was kind of struggling to be.. to have its way, it was supposed to be this dual self like the ape, & the ghost, kind of trying to gain control..

M: What does the ship represent [on Sea Shanty]?

S: yeah, that one was another one where i never quite.. it's supposed.. either i couldn't figure out what it was about, if it was myself as a ship, or the entire human world as a ship, & it's probably just about both.

M: Speaking of older songs.. Do you ever become so disconnected from a song that you no longer feel like playing it anymore? You've dropped some live songs over the years.. Do you just get sick of them emotionally, as opposed to sonically?

S: it's usually sort of, after a while, i become pretty detached from the circumstances that the song came up in, & i just think of it as a piece of music that will, you know, be more or less effective in a set when we're playing live songs, & i don't really think, i don't really.. i mean i do few i still have to kinda plug into it, connect with it, but you know.. you can do that with any kind of song, even a song that somebody else wrote.. umm, so, but yeah, there are a few songs that i just don't really.. specifically we were thinking about playing bon voyage.. we're playing a show with smog coming up in portland, & we thought 'well we should do a quieter set,' cos smog's music is so kinda reflective, & our music, can be pretty clamourous, so we thought we'd do kind of a quieter thing.. we were considering doing bon voyage, but i don't think it's gonna happen, cos i can't really..it was written about a very specific point in time in my life that.. it didn't end up.. (M: it would require imagination, i guess .) [laughs.] exactly, you know, it might benefit the sentiment of the song.. but i don't think it'll come true.

M: You've had some reservations about this one, but might you some day play A Fable With No Moral live?

S: yeah, i think we're actually gonna do that one. that's the first time.. we've never played that one live at all.. we had that song, & we kinda learned it in the studio & never played it, so we had to go back & learn it. i think we're gonna do that for this upcoming show.

M: Interesting. How about The Golden Egg?

S: i think we're gonna do that one too, that was sorta the same deal.. it was another song.. a lot of the stuff we did on field studies was.. because janet was on tour with sleater-kinney, i was on tour with elliott, & we went on tour together.. but we just didn't have time to like really put that many songs together, we just had to kinda work them out in the studio.

M: Field Studies felt like more of a studio record, maybe..

S: yeah, it kinda was, you know, but we're actually gonna try playing a few of those, coming up..

M: The Star You Left Behind has sort of a similar sentiment to Bon Voyage, yet you still play it live quite a bit. How has that played-out differently?

S: umm, i just think that that song was one of my favourite songs that we had, i'm not sure that other people like it as much as i did, but i really sort of connect to the feeling of it..

M: The Star You Left seems to be less focused on the harsh emotion maybe..

S: yeah, i- you know, i think that song was one of the more succesful one that we had.. & it's not as just brutal as bon voyage..

M: It's a sad song that is still listenable even when you're not feeling that emotion..

S: i think so, yeah.

M: Is it a coincidence that you always have a guitar song as the fifth track? (It goes back to The Sword of God, Empty Words, Sea Shanty, Two Face..)

S: huh. hmm, i guess it's probably just because of the.. when we're trying to sequence the records together, we uh, it just seems to flow, i don't know..

M: Also, the last song is generally a guitar song, too..

S: yeah, now i have to be concious of that & next time we do a record, count out & make sure that the guitar one's not fifth or whatever. [laughs.]

M: ...Or continue the tradition...

S: Or yeah, perhaps make sure that it is.

M: Might we hear Rock & Roll Can Never Die (the last song on the new record) live at some point?

S: I dunno.. you know? you never know...

M: Might be a hard one to do live..

S: yeah, it's possible we could get a tape of a bag pipe player & do it..

M: Did you have a sample of that, or was that a keyboard? (The bagpipe on Rock & Roll Can Never Die.)

S: That was just an actual record, like a LP, that we just recorded on one of the tracks, &hooked it up to the music.

M: When I first saw the title 'Rock & Roll Can Never Die,' I was hoping it might be a song you were playing a while ago called 'I Wish It Was Me.' What happened to that song?

S: Yeah, luckily, strangely, i wrote that song for a friend of mine who was in chemotherapy, luckily, he recovered, but then sadly, another friend of mine was also stricken with lukemia, but he didn't make it, i dunno, you know? we were playing it for a while, i'm not sure, we might still work something out, but it had a few problems that never, we never quite figured out..

M: Might you bring that back at some point?

S: Well, you never know.. these things, they kinda hang around, & if they wanna be heard, they sorta force their way out into the world..

M: It's only existant in a few bootleg tapes at the moment.. Anyway, is there anything in particular you'd like to talk about now?

S: I never really have anything specific I need to say.. you've been asking interesting questions.

M: What do you think of interviews?

S: I, you know, I don't do some many of them that they're really a burden, despite the fact that I wasn't around, & didn't have it straight enough to be on time with yours. [laughs.] [editor's note: he wasn't home when i first called for the interview, although it was scheduled for that time.] normally it's not really a burden, it just depends on the interviews, sometimes, especially in a case like what you say if you're doing something that not like 'introducing Quasi' to people who haven't.. i don't really have patience to go through that whole thing...

M: Probably not many interesting questions in those interviews for you to answer.. 'Yeah, we're a band..'

S: Yeah, but luckily, we've been getting less & less of that, & when we do get it now, I try to nicely just sorta, you know, guide people to it.. but they should find out the basics themselves, i don't really want to talk about it.

M: People often enjoy taking every song you write apart & trying to decide what it's about.. Is The Poisoned Well about anything or anyone in particular?

S: No, that's uhm, most of the songs are not about a specific person or situation, it's usually kind of like.. either it's about me, or it's about me in relation to somebody else.. sometimes it's about like composite different people in different situations that seem to have in my mind all sort of resonate in the same way, all seem to comply to the same sort of emotional feeling.. & so, you know, that song isn't really about anything in specific..

M: Do you still enjoy playing it live, or do you do it just to please people?

S: Umm, I enjoy playing it.. we don't play it very often anymore, which is probably why I still enjoy it..

M: What sort of piano have you used for the record songs? Is it just a synth, or a studio piano of some sort?

S: On the most recent recordings we did, we tracked all the piano stuff at my house, & i just have like an old, turn-of-the-century upright piano, that's umm.. it's pretty funky, but it's really big sounding..

M: Would that be the piano on Better Luck Next Time?

S: Yeah.

M: What piano did you use on The Golden Egg?

S: That's the piano that they had at Jackpot Studios, that's another old upright piano.. that's not quite as - i don't think - quite as big as the one i have.

M: What sort of keyboard is used on Under a Cloud? It doesn't quite sound like a normal piano..

S: That was a piano run.. uh, through an amplier, through a phaser, through like a phase peddle, & then just like miked back in liked a regular piano.

M: What other keyboards have you used for other songs?

S: Well, now a days i just use this roland thing that i was talking about for most stuff.. i also have an old synthesiser, a regular analogue synthesiser called a juno 60 that gets most of the kind of synthesiser sounds that i use...

M: The guitar on Empty Words isn't quite standard-sounding.. What is the effect on that one?

S: Oh at the end when all the guitars come in? There's not really.. it's an Ebo guitar, I don't know if you're familiar with that kinda thing, but it's like a little device that generates a little electro-magnetic field around the string, & it vibrates, you don't have to actually touch the string, so you just put it up to the string & move your hands around on the fret & you get the notes, so it gives it kind of a strange kind of sound..

M: Where did the idea for the theremin at the end of The Golden Egg come from?

S: I actually demoed that song out at a certain point, & it had mandolin playing pretty much the same part, or a very similar part, but i didn't like the way that sounded, i thought the song was starting to sound too much like a billy joel song or something, so i decided to switch it, & i had bought a theremin & i thought that would be a good way to make it a little more interesting...

M: Are there any other songs you've thrown away when you've realised they're rip-offs of something else?

S: Umm, by the time the songs get to the recording stage, we're usually pretty happy with them.. I think sometimes i'll write a song & i'll realise 'oh shit, that's just like this song or that song...'

M: Are there any songs you've released that you'd like to admit to being blantant rip-offs of other songs?

S: Hmm, well, I dunno, I don't think I've really been blatantly ripping off of anything..

M: Maybe more subtle, subconcious things..

S: Yeah, well, I mean, of course I borrowed stuff, but you know, that's what rock & roll music is, it's just basically like a folk music, & people learn it from other people.

M: Well, you can't blame modern English for being too much like Old English, I guess..

S: [laughs.] yeah. but the trick is to not be too uh, you know.. to put your own twist on it..

M: You've played gondola on some songs.. What exactly is Filthy Gondola Music?

S: yeah, that was.. they're now my former publishers.. i was recently dropped by them.. umm, but i had a contract with them, & they gave me a bunch of money which they never.. uh.. got back, so they decided to not give me any more... [laughs.]

M: Well, you'll be alright if that keeps happening...

S: yeah, you know, it was good to have, it was lucky to get any money in this industry..

M: Did you happen to be involved in the 'Gondola Man' segment at the end of Happiness, on Figure 8 (by Elliott.)

S: No.. I don't remember... no....

M: Do you listen to his records much?

S: Well I used to, of course, just to learn the songs I had to listen to them quite a bit.. I mean, I have listened to them a lot more than what I do more.. I've heard them so many times, I've played them so many times just to learn them, but umm, you know when i do.. sometimes when i do, sometimes i go back to listen to them just for pleasure, & it's a lot better to listen to them that way instead of listening the parts to learn to play them..

M: Back to your own records.. which one would you say you are happiest with?

S: Hmm.. I used to think that my favourite one was early recorings, just because i liked the kind of spirit & the overall feel of that record.. umm, but i'm not sure, i think the problem was lke with that record, i think up until maybe a couple records ago, i didn't put a lot of thought into it, we just had songs & i was just.. went forward & i tried to follow my intuition & make a record, however it turned out.. & then i started thinking.. getting more preconceived ideas.. like 'i want this record to be like this,' & at that point, the early records, since i didn't have any preconceived ideas, if they came out sounding good, it was just like i was overjoyed, cos i didn't really have any, you know..

M: More of a stab in the dark?

S: Exactly. & now that i feel i have some kind of idea of how i want them to be, they never really are how you want them to be, at least we haven't really gotten as close as I'd like to get..

M: Do you feel you're getting closer?

S: Yeah, I think so.. I think, I'm excited about where we are about doing stuff in the future, because, recording the new one (The Sword of God) all by ourselves, required that we had to just learn a lot, just how to make it sound decent..

M: Are you very technically inclined?

S: No, not at all. I thought that we'd have a lot of time to record this record, but we spent most of the time just trying to figure out how to make the equipment work right, & get halfway decent sound.. so that we didn't have as much time experimenting with different ideas musically.. but now we've pretty much figured out at least how to get a reasonable level of sound quality, & next time around we'll have a lot more opportunities.. we'd like to get further out creatively..

M: Yeah, it sounds like the new record has sort of a more theatric feel almost.. With the introduction, & certain songs running together..

S: Yeah, you know, hopefully we'll be able to have some kind of success, kind of going more in that direction.

M: What are your favourite songs that you've written?

S: Usually it's.. strangely it's always the newest songs.. it's like 'that's the best one!' & we have songs now we've worked on - the new record hasn't even come out yet - we're already playing songs that are new to us.. & you know, i'm more excited about the stuff that's.. well, eventually this record's gonna come out & it's gonna seem like it's new to everybody else, & we'll be playing those.. but it's hard to get excited about stuff that's already done, i like to just kind of move on & keep moving forward.

Do

S: [Excitedly.] It's fun.

M: Do you like playing covers you connect with more lyrically or musically?

S: A little bit of both. To me, just a song that has a good feel, whether it's musically.. I don't really necessarily relate to the lyrics, of so many songs, but the lyrics are kind of.. but the lyrics might be connected to a certain feel that the song has, & the feel, you connect with the feel of it, & that's the main thing..

M: Have you played any covers live multiple times?

S: Yeah, we have.. [but] we usually will learn another one & we'll just forget the old one.

M: Clouds has made a return lately live.. Have you felt more like playing it lately?

S: Yeah, i think mostly Janet wanted to play it, cos she plays guitar on it.

M: Is it both of you?

S: Umm, on the recording of that song it's just me, but live, she plays the guitar also, we both play the guitar.

M: The guitars don't quite sound normal.. Are they tuned normally?

S: they're standard.

M: On the record, too?

S: Yeah, i played, during the kind of mushing, shifting, i tried to kind of make it sound kind of cloudy there, with kind of strange chords. The two guitars are playing kind of different chord in different cycles, with just standard tuning...

M: Might you bring back one of the more morbid ones, like When I'm Dead at some point?

S: Yeah, I could see doing that, kind of the older it gets, the funner it is to bring it back..

M: You're touring this fall?

S: Yes.

M: Where are you planning on stopping?

S: Ah, it's pretty much.. they're just charting it out now, it's the standard, just what's become fairly standard for us, going around the US, umm, hitting most of the big cities, especially east coast & west coast, umm, yeah, i dunno, most places where people would be interested.

M: How about the Twin Cities? (Had to ask, it's my home town.)

S: Oh certainly, always.

M: What have been your favourite local music scenes so far?

S: I don't really know.. I'm not too concious of whatever scenes are around, hard to note.. it seems like a lot of really cool bands come out of detroit, which is a strange place in a lot of ways, but i guess there's like a good history of bands there.

M: Have you had better-than-expected receptions in any particular places?

S: Well, i usually, i mean, it's probably because we're not.. well, in most places we're totally underground, we're not that well known at all, & you know, the big cities is usually where we do the best, & we're hitting new york, chicago, you know, the west coast, where we spend some more time, since we live out here.

M: Any notes on the new record people should know about?

S: No, you know, I think, hopefully people will check it out & see for themselves, I don't really have any particular spin to put on it..

M: Out of curiousity, what sort of record sales do you do?

S: Well, I think featuring birds was the one that sold the most.. i think it sold something like 16 [thousand copies or] 17 [thousand copies.] [editor's note: i've seen articles that report it in the mid 20-thousands.] umm, which, for up records, a little tiny company, they had like three people working there, that's quite a few records for a company to be able to sell - indie records - any indie record that sells over ten thousand has gotta be doing good..

M: You seem to have a pretty large fan base too..

S: Yeah, you know, we'll see, hopefully touch & go is a little bigger, maybe have a little better distribution, so eventually if people like this record, we could sell a little bit more.

M: Alright, thanks a lot for your time. I'll just about let you go.. Good luck with the tour, the new record, & with other interviews..

S: Thank you. Alright, apologies again for fucking up the time..

M: That's quite alright.

S: Alright, good luck.

M: Goodbye.